tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post2972652697696807891..comments2024-02-01T01:23:04.509-08:00Comments on Dolce and Namak Talk Indian Movies: Violence - between Catharsis and SolutionDolce and Namakhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13403089235872528987noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post-70277214896749161822011-10-16T12:58:03.890-07:002011-10-16T12:58:03.890-07:00Yes, Liz, that's exactly what I was getting at...Yes, Liz, that's exactly what I was getting at too: the abundance of cop heroes lately. And the increased amount of cruelty (though that last one may be the result of better make-up and special effects techniques). <br /><br />Since I just rewatched Raavanan, I do feel that in this aspect that one got it right with the ending and how we feel about the good guys and the bad guys. But that seems to be an exception these days. <br /><br />It's an interesting progress to watch, curious if I will ever have a clear cut answer on why we are seeing so much of this. Sirish was tweeting something the other day that was brilliantly put, he said something about how people think Telugu dishoom movies are all about the OTT action, but in fact they're all about the rawness. Maybe this is an extension of that rawness they're aiming for...Dolce and Namakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13403089235872528987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post-77331519506335790302011-10-08T18:05:56.901-07:002011-10-08T18:05:56.901-07:00Great post, I've been meaning to reply, so her...Great post, I've been meaning to reply, so here goes:<br />I definitely agree with the catharsis aspect, and I've thought that the reason I don't mind the violence in Telugu (and to an extent Tamil-Malayalam-Kannada) films is that when an innocent person is killed I know that within the story they will be a)mourned and b)avenged. Two good examples of this are Oosaravelli (which I saw today, and loved) and Athannokade (and it's Tamil remake Aathi), in which lots of nice, innocent people, including kids, are killed in some particularly horrible ways by the bad guys. So the protagonist's obsession with revenge and violence totally made sense, and I was generally fine with all of the violence that happened.<br /><br />On the flip side, I've seen two movies lately where the evildoing of the bad guys didn't quite seem to warrant the excess of the hero's revenge. In the Hindi Singham, the last action scene is really drawn out, and the lead cop really strings along the bad guy before offing him, vs. in the Tamil version, where the final battle/death is more of a necessity in the task of rescuing the kidnapped girl. Same thing with Dookudu, I didn't really like that Mahesh's character made his victims helpless, and then sort of teased them before pulling the plug/shooting the arrow/etc. <br /><br />I also feel differently about the "loner seeking vengeance" than the "cops meting out justice." I feel like I'm seeing more movies where the cop heroes engineer encounter killings (like in Hindi Singham), and it makes me uneasy.dustdevil lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03564737263775943203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post-81257416229014522272011-10-06T06:42:31.917-07:002011-10-06T06:42:31.917-07:00Hey Temple, yes, you are definitely on to somethin...Hey Temple, yes, you are definitely on to something there about the system not working, and that's kind of what I was trying to get at too. When the film proposes this type of vigilante as the hero in a system that doesn't work, it makes you wonder if everyone enjoying it is behind this type of film because they recognize a fact of life. <br /><br />And you are certainly right about a world where the bad guys don't get to walk away, though I still feel that that's a little bit too black and white for my taste. However, as I was telling Leaf above, I can never quite rejoice as much as others because I know that these "happy" endings don't actually happen and a world where all the villains get offed doesn't actually exist. Granted, I don't watch movies to satisfy my cravings for reality, because then I'd just be watching the news, but I also can't help but put them in some sort of real world context. Not that it's not satisfying to see Mahesh kick ass in a movie (though I would argue with you on that count: the violence has in my opinion gotten a whole lot rougher and a whole lot more graphic, so it's not the cartoon stuff I was used to before and tolerated just fine). But it's also food for thought why that character is even needed to begin with.<br /><br />Thank you for offering your (almost opposite) points of view, guys, it's interesting to see what goes on in everyone's head when they watch (and enjoy) the same kind of movie.Dolce and Namakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13403089235872528987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post-12577240966569153442011-10-06T06:29:27.271-07:002011-10-06T06:29:27.271-07:00Hey Leaf, that's an interesting point of view,...Hey Leaf, that's an interesting point of view, I would have imagined these movies get made more for the people who *do* experience these things as part of their every day life rather than for the ones who don't, but you just argued the opposite quite sensibly, so maybe it's both. From the point of view of catharsis, it's hard to say which group would feel more rewarded at the end of it.<br /><br />I also don't think it's ridiculous to feel that these films give a face to the numbers, and in fact I am almost certain that is one of their goals, even with American movies, the problem with Hollywood however is that they can't seem to do this without propaganda, which usually makes me roll my eyes, so there goes all that emotion. That's probably why British and Tamil films hit harder, because there's no political agenda tied to them (or it's not always the same one anyway).<br /><br />I think for me though, the squirming part comes from the fact that I do know these things happen, but there's no relief at the end of it all because I know that the filmi endings with all the bad guys dying don't happen in real life. So in a way for me the filmi endings make it worse. That's probably why I just block it all out, cover my eyes through the really rough violence and just treat it as a cartoon in the end when everyone gets killed off. But I can't say it doesn't still bug me on certain levels, which is why I'm always left wondering why the film makers chose this route... That said, I love seeing everyone's points of view on why it doesn't bother them, so thank you for sharing yours!<br /><br />And by the way, would love to see your movie if you ever make one! ;) Even if violence is a big part of it. :)Dolce and Namakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13403089235872528987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post-65031210166946171232011-10-02T08:19:18.415-07:002011-10-02T08:19:18.415-07:00Hi Dolce
I see the justice/law issue a bit differe...Hi Dolce<br />I see the justice/law issue a bit differently. I think many of these films (Athadu, Pokiri, Tagore, even Kanthaswamy etc) depict a setting where even the police cannot rely on the legal system to deliver justice, so a 'good' policeman may have to work outside the law. The vigilante hero is more of a remedy for a system that doesn't work than a sign of the system responding to the need of the people. There do seem to be clear rules (in the films) that an acknowledged 'good' person may kill a bad person and that is a good result that needs no further investigation.<br />I find the violence in Telugu films generally to be so unrealistic looking and over the top that it doesn't make me flinch at all and I really like their commitment to the comeuppance. I find that appealing - a fictional world where the bad guys don't often get away scot free. And sometimes they even have a positive social message in amongst all the carnage.<br />But it is clearly a fantasy or entertainment and that's why I can enjoy it and go along for the cathartic rollercoaster ride. I avoid watching news footage of disasters or accidents as I cannot stomach seeing the real life damage and pain.<br />Cheers<br /><br />TempleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503508735843316282.post-64452020440740981392011-10-01T14:05:29.149-07:002011-10-01T14:05:29.149-07:00I've been thinking about since I read this pos...I've been thinking about since I read this post yesterday and I think my catharsis has a lot to do with the sanitized world I live in.<br /><br />I am someone who is annoyed by Hollywood's loud, bloodless, victim-less explosions and torture porn like Hostel. I can appreciate the choreography in the masala fight sequences, but I mostly fast forward through them unless they are especially good or ridiculous like the shark in Chatrapathi. <br /><br />The violence that feels truly cathartic to me is the sort in British gangster films and (to a lesser extent) Tamil gangster films. The deaths and rapes and torture tend to happen to people we recognize as individuals. It doesn't feel thoughtless and I'm usually scrunched into a ball for most of the film from all the violence. But at the end of it, I can look around and be relieved that I don't live in that world.<br /><br />I've wondered why I get so much catharsis from it, and oddly enough, I think it has to do with the fact that I've been reading the newspaper since I was 6. Victims of violent crimes and genocide always come across as numbers and I'm left feeling sad that I cannot mourn them properly because I didn't know who they were and how much they suffered. <br /><br />Violent films give me a world into that, and in my ridiculous head, I think of mourning for the characters as mourning for the real people I do not know. <br /><br />This might or might not make sense and it might be my trying to explain away why I don't struggle with violence in film, and if I were to make a film, violence would certainly be involved.Leafnoreply@blogger.com